Police Harassment

Ian...im sure we have been over this subject many a times...Like carol said yesterday regarding the dog / cats post "it doesnt affect me, fo me its getting boring now".
So lets bring some sort joy to the forum... i dont have a bar.

I tried to get something sorted using this forum to sound off,just a month or so back,I have seen jeff about this harassment of bar owners,not only does it appear nothing was done by jeff,but also the people reading this forum were almost unanimous in condemning my interference,and they didnt want to get involved in politics.
I tried my best,so Ian why dont you try and get these non-politic people in this forum to get involved,if they dont as sure as eggs is eggs,the police will be knocking on your front door,at 10 o clock at night telling you to stop talking as it is too loud.
When will the people on this Urb. wake up and fight for a decent life,instead of allowing yourselves to be bullied.
Fight now or forever lose your right to a decent life

Andi - This is a serious problem and MUST be sorted out before more of the English people are absolutely p****d off with this and go back home. The Law here in Spain should be made that entertainment is allowed in the bars/restaurants up to say 12.00 Midnight - I think that is quite acceptable. Then the local police could do something more useful like stopping muggings or catching drunk drivers instead of ruining peoples evening and unnerving the poor owners who are trying to make a living out here.

Carol, i do agree with you 100% but it gets to the point where the police are abrupt and just because they have a uniform on with a pistol and pepper spray on the waist they think they can talk to people like dirt.
We have to remember all politicians are the same in one way or another. If i started to speak to a officer in spanish maybe id get somewhere if i speak english he will take one look and get hostile. The politicians need to get it sorted as it does affect everyone. We hear what they all have to say and im begining to kind of sit in the middle of the fence on alot of stuff now. As i said i agree 100% with what your saying cause if were honest if it wasnt for the english and germans allbars would be closed down and thats a fact.

This sort of thing has been going on in Spain for over 25years as I know. I can remember being in Reggie's bar in Benidorm back in the 80's and the police coming and taping up his music. One week later they told him they were coming back on the Friday morning at 10 0'clock. They arrived early and he gave them a cup of coffee. They drank the coffee and got up, he thought good they are going to untape my music. No, the one said is that your car out there and he said yes, and they towed it away. Me in those days, being a hot-head would have gone mental. Not Reggie, he took it all in his stride and laughed about it. We left Spain the next day but i always wondered what happened.

Carol - I totally agree with you. Surely something can be done to stop this police intimidation. Can we set up some kind of petition or take some action between us to show that Yes we do like a good evenings entertainment without the aggro of the police turning up.
Does anyone have any ideas how we the public can go about sorting this problem out before it's too late !!!!!!.

Andi - bar or no bar, shame on you - you will be dealt with later x

Hi Ian, the whole issue of music in bars is a complete minefield. Valencian Laws is quite rigid when it comes down to live music in bars. Especially when a large group of residents from around the Consum area have got together, badgered our Mayor about the excessive noise and threatened legal action if we don't do anything about it. So in short, the actions of the Police are motivated by the complaints from residents. They are not there to argue the rights or wrongs of their decision. The law is the law. Many of the owners of the bars in the Consum area, attended a meeting with the Mayor a few weeks ago, and the requirements were explained. If Bar owners have failed to comply with these requirements then I would say that you can hardly blame the Police for doing their job. As has been said before, if Bar owners are unaware of the licencing laws regarding live music, they should consult their Gestor/Lawyer or come to see me at my office.

" Ian...im sure we have been over this subject many a times...Like carol said yesterday regarding the dog / cats post "it doesnt affect me, fo me its getting boring now".
So lets bring some sort joy to the forum... i dont have a bar. "



You may not have a bar etc but one day you or your friends/relations may just want to go into a bar for some entertainment,then when there is none and your property value has gone done further because no wants to come to the area you will have a go on the forums about that then the answer will be I'm the only one left here there is nothing here any more

It is probably moaning English people going on about the noise, and also jealous neighbours who haven't got many customers in their own bars. This has happened in other parts of the Urb where there are a few bars fighting for custom. I don't think the Spanish people mind a bit of noise.

Hi Jeff
Thank you for your reply to this posting. It is not really a bad thing that a local residents association for that area has been formed. Local residents associations properly run are often a very useful tool for getting things done and actions taken. I presume, of course, that a meeting has taken place between the L.R.A. and the bar owners? The only danger is if the L.R.A goes and gets too many restrictions put upon the bars it will lead to the obvious, that is they will all just end up closing down, making the Consum area a ghost town at night.
However it appears from only here say that Friday's evening problem arose from a complaint about another bar not the Final Whistle. Apparently they had their doors and windows open at the back of the premises and had a Karaoke evening taking place. So the question is did this bar owner not know about what they were allowed to do in the winter months?
Then the plot thickens - it seems that offending bar owner after and when Police arrived then complained that their neighbours bar having Music on, so they complained to the Police that they should also be told by the Police about there music and said that they should be given a visit.
To which the Police did, they gave no thought to the fact that the Final Whistle were operating within the guidelines as laid down. Perhaps there is room for a Senior officer under these circumstances who should have been consulted first.

I agree the same subjects do get boring, but really this should be quite easy to sort, especially now winter is approaching. If live entertainment is in a Venue it should be at an agreed level - we don't need loud music or you can't talk, and with the doors closed it would not be heard outside the establishment. Time to finish would be Midnight (quite late enough). THEN if any of the neighbours complain, hard luck because the above rules have been set and obeyed. Simple !!

As a bar owner these things do concern me, so sorry to bore anyone who isn't interested. Were only the bars in the consum area invited to this meeting that has been mentioned? as we certainly werent asked to attend. Its all very well asking your Gestor for advice but i dont think they really know. Very often the asnwers that we all get (to various questions) differ, so they cant all be right.
All I know is that we are all struggling for survival right now, so god knows how bad things will be come Jan/feb when people have spent all their money over christmas! Many people that we know are going back to the Uk for christmas or to Benidorm.......why arent they staying here??
If we have half a chance of keeping these bars open, then we have to be able to give the customers what they want. ( within reason obviously) And surely its the only way to build up tourism in the area, because apart from a good beach and sunshine what else do we have to offer?

Why don't all the bars who want to have entertainment, wherever they are situated on the Urb, get together and try and sort this out, once and for all. Why not get the British Consul involved as well. Most English people like entertainment when they go out and the Spanish like their music as well. You all have to stick together in this, its no time for petty jealousies, and who is doing better, one of you Bar owners must take up the cudgels and form a united front. If you all stand together then surely someone has to take notice. WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THIS, THEN IT IS UP TO THE CUSTOMERS TO STAND WITH YOU.

Well from what Jeff says I suggest that he gets the Mayor to find out how come Benidorm and Torrevieja and Valencia manage to have Entertainment for the locals and as a draw for tourists. What can be done there can be done here? CAN'T IT??????????? Or is the aim for this Urb to close up shop??????? As a passing thought the answer should not include Bar Owners having to spend a small fortune on lots of EXTRA sound proofing, I don’t think any of them could afford it. MUSIC UP TO 12.00 AT A REASONABLE LEVEL SHOULD BE OK.

Having been to see Jeff last week at the office, I don´t think that he has the power to do anything about any complaints that anyone has on this Urb. he seems to always blame the previous council/the law I think it´s about time that he stands up for all of us and do something about all the complaints/suggestion that are to made to him

Eve, nice to see someone who can come up with something constructive instead of going off half cocked trying to score points.
There needs to be a way to regulate noise based on accurate measurements with defined distances. Maybe this equipment is costly, I don't know. But we obviously need something. Noise is a difficult subject as everyone has their own idea of what is too loud, which is why specific measurements are necessary. So when the bar owners get together they should take these things into account.
Jaytee.

Ian has Pallo got this piece of equipment for measuring sound at the Sports Complex or not. If he has then surely someone can ask him how much it costs to buy. I am sure he would help with this. I know Alan you stated that people did not want to get involved in politics, but, at the end of the day it is up to the bar Owners to try and sort this out. It is their licences after all, but, if they start up a petition then I will gladly sign it, and i am sure a lot of other people on the Urb would be only to happy to do so as well. In England they have a Licensed Victuallers Association, why not attempt to start one out here?

I worked for years in the uk as a dj,
this issue was come accross regular but mainly in hotels or social clubs close to residents.
the solution was simple,
These establishments had a sound limiter fitted in the rooms that had the entertainment.
the limiter works very simply, if the noise level went over a set level,(i.e number of decibels) it would cut the power supply that the equipment was plugged into.
this way no one could complain, because it made it imposible to have music etc above this level.
if this system was installed here, yes it does cost money, but in the long run it would increase revenue for the bars as they would not have to cut entertainment short, and also it would free the police up to do other duties, Im sure the police who after all are only doing there job would sooner not have to constantly chase up complaints from irrate residents,
also the bar owner could prove that there entertainment was not to loud.

Andy I have had experience of these devices also and the main problem was in my time 30years ago that it kept cutting the power and the amps would continually blow fuses.It got to a stage back then that bands wouldn't take bookings from pubs & clubs that had these fitted although technology has probably resolved this problem by now .BUT THEY DO WORK.