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The leader paper regarding bar noise

ASL Member Founding Member Mitteilung #14305 Antworten geschlossen

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TOWN HALL PLEADS WITH BAR OWNERS TO REGULATE THEMSELVES REGARDING MUSIC LEVELS
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Contributor / 2012-05-25 21:21:08

San Fulgencio municipality receives the most denuncias against bars than any other municipality in the Valencian Community. The shocking claim came in a phone call from Valencia to the Mayor of San Fulgencio, Carlos Ramirez. In respect to other areas by comparing the population and number of bars, the number of denuncias is considerably higher than other areas for example, Rojales and Quesada, where few complaints are received. As a result, last Tuesday, the Mayor called a meeting last Tuesday between the bar owners of San Fulgencio and the urbanisations to address the situation.
 
“We want this to be positive, do not look at the Town Hall as an enemy, but as a friend.” The Mayor continued, “We are very conscious that times are difficult and we want you to earn money but it is also important to respect and have balance with your neighbours.”
 
It is the age old debate of the right of bar's to have live music and the residents' right to live in peaceful surrounding that has prompted the majority of denuncias in the province.  Bar owners are battling for their livelihoods and fought for the need to be able to offer live entertainment, karaoke and quiz nights to keep the customer's happy, continually complaining about 'harassment' from the police who patrol the urbanisations' commercial areas checking licenses and stopping music. One owner said there were 3 policemen outside her premises for an hour and as she began to close and stop the entertainment, they slapped her with a denuncia against the noise. At the same time this was happening a customer in her bar was having her property broken in to and her possessions stolen. “That was the equivalent of 3 hours of man power wasted listening to my music when someone was having her home destroyed.” “The police are simply doing their job” explained councillor for the urbanisations Jeff Wiszniewski, “If they receive a complaint they have to investigate it, if they do not respond they are breaking the law themselves.”
 
The councillor told the heated congregation that there were 45 establishments in San Fulgencio and the urbanisations. Of these, just 15 have their opening license with the others having applied or awaiting the paperwork to come through. In theory, if the Town Hall was to impose the law literally these premises technically should not be open and the Valencian authorities could come along and close them down. The Mayor and his team at Tuesday's meeting stressed they did not want this to happen, they want to help the businesses as much as possible to help the area strive and grow. Of these 45 establishments, only 3 had licenses under the categories 'I' and 'B' being classed as discos and dance halls and therefore allowed live music until 1.30am. This means that the majority of bars in urbanisation La Marina are not legally licensed to have live music which Jeff explains to be “as soon as you pick up a microphone to sing or even do a quiz it becomes live music.” As a result, if the police receive a complaint they have little option but to uphold the law and the license status that the establishment holds. 
 
However, in a show of support the Mayor and his team made it clear that they will accommodate the bars in most cases and pleaded with the bar owners to regulate themselves and show common sense. “So can we do karaoke until midnight?” asked one, “Technically and legally no,” replied Jeff. “But, if the noise is kept at a decent level and cannot be heard from around 20m away that is a decent level. Keep speakers inside and close windows and doors. It is up to you to check the sound levels of any entertainers you have.” 
 
The Town Hall said they have no objections at all to music or entertainment for 'fiestas' or special events such as charity fundraisers or celebrations as long as the correct requests and paperwork is filled in and done in plenty of time. One such event did receive a visit from the police on Sunday after a complaint about the outside live entertainment was made, but the councillor for urbanisations explained that the denuncia will be nullified as this was a mistake on their behalf and an administrative error resulting in the papers not going to the right department.
 
In practice it would seem that the Town Hall are allowing as much leeway as possible extending courtesy to the bars to allow them reasonable music to help them continue with their businesses but the only way the situation will be eased is if the denuncias stop. However, it came to light that shockingly, in many cases it is not neighbours complaining but other bars making the denuncias, plotting against the competition or rivals, effectively killing business for everyone. “You cannot fight against each other. We are recommending you form a Bar Owners Association so there is no counter-talk but representatives of you all who can bring problems and issues to us here at the Town Hall. This type of meeting only degrades in to a slanging match, you need to be unified in what you are doing and without people co-operating and coming together this place will die.”
 
The meeting on Tuesday was for bar owners in certain areas with other's being addressed with the same issues at differing times to make it easier for the Town Hall to speak with all owners. The Mayor has made it clear that if the bar's do not help themselves Valencia could send Policia Nacional officers to the municipality who will close the premises if the law is found to be breached and it will be out of the hands of the Ayuntamiento. However, he has promised to speak with the Valencian Government asking them not to come saying they will deal and address the issue.
 
As the meeting came to a close it seems the final say as to the future of the night life of La Marina lies in the hands of the bar owner's themselves, the very people who face losing and gaining the most.
 

Kommentare

I would say the writing is on the wall for the bars with out a license when it is the other bars that have one that are out to close them down.
I like the fact that the local councilor is happy to bend the law to help these bars to keep trading but I would think that it will be soon taken out of his hands, with a few complaints made to the Valencian Government by the other bars.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

At the end of the day these bars that are trading illegally should simply be dealt with, and the legal bars should be able to apply for a grant to suppress the noise from either a secondary entrance/exit or triple glazed facia's and go from there.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

I have to agree with you, the law is the law and why should 3 bars have to pay and all the others not, its the bars fault to think that they can trade outside of the rules, its time to pay up or shut up shop.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

Andi
I gather this is a report in tomorrows Leader newspaper.
If so i am pleased to see that valencia state that Fiestas etc.are allowed to continue.
The fact that a person has complained in advance to try to stop the fiesta this year in consume2 has clearly been told his argument holds no water in Valencian Law.and hopefully he will withdraw his threat.
The shame of it all is that, the police and Jeff were at the consume area on at least one weekend and achieved nothing as no outward noise appeared,except for a bunch of yobs shouting about.So they didnt find any problems of any importance,But as reported a year ago,it takes just one complaint to the police and that sad person complaining ,even when told by the police that the amount of noise emitting from the area complained about was not above agreed levels,that very same sad person is then asked to rescind his complaint ,if he refuses to ,the police have to make the bar concerned either turn down the music or turn it off.That is howv it works.Is that fair,of course it aint,that is what these bar owners have to contend with.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

One thing i did forgotten to say was that the Illegal bars should also be able to fall in line with the legal bars.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

Wouldnt it be great for the three bars with licenses for music be named,so that at least people who want entertainment for the night can go there without the thought of it being stopped at any time .
One more question for our Mayor,You state you want to help these bars to stay open and thrive,In that case why do you charge them 1000 Euros for an opening license when La Marina Village does the same thing for 25Euros.
or are these figures false,and someone is telling us lies

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

Good points made there Alan

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

I would like to point out that the cost of your opening licence will also depend on your solicitor and the charges they make. Our opening licence cost us €2800 4 years ago. We had to re-name our bar for reasons I wont go into, so we were told this increased the cost of the licence. I have more recently been told just a name change would now cost around €300- €500.
Our friends who have a bar here were led to believe by their solicitor that it was ok to trade using a licence in someone else's name! They now have trouble because of this. I doubt they could prove this is what they were told and even if they could could, could they afford to take this to court or do whatever necessery to prove they believed it was ok to use the existing licence.
I do wonder what has happened here as it only seems to be the last few months that all this trouble has started......why?
Here's hoping it s a busy summer for us all and that everyone starts to get along again.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-27

Who do we believe, the guy who runs the Ice cream place who posts abour the 6 or 7 moaners / residents, or the town hall who stay its 90 denuncias raised by their neigbouring bars ???

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-30

For once Golfer.why not read what is written,The council said they received over 70 denouncias and not 90 as yousay),and not that over 70 people made denouncias,(and not 90 as you say
Surely even if you was biased,you could see that one person could make more than one complaint.
If I could put it clearer this forum has received comments pro and anti the noise problem I havnt counted them but if 100 comments have been written I would say that a good percentage have been written by three or four people, no way would nearly 100 different people would of commented on the problem.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-30

Alan why be so obnoxious
A AM Sorry, I made a mistake, I should have 70 (not 90) bar owners or whoever making denuncias.

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-30

I am trying to be politically correct with you,I apologize if you dont see it that way.
But even after you noticed and corrected your error,you made no effort to correct the fact that it is very doubtful that 70 people made a complaint. but that 70 comñplaints had been made.
I have accepted we will never be bosom buddies,but surely we can both accept critism,I have had some on forums,but when i have made a mistake,I have no problem with someone correcting me,and i always apologise graciously (or at least I think I do)being shown you have made a mistake is not as bad as still not accepting that some people do not understand how you get your figurework sorted

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-30

I AM SORRY, I do not know exactly how many complaints have been made and by who.
Even on Jeff's blog only states.
Over the last five months! individuals, be they bar owners, or members of the public have called the Police more than 70 times? Resulting in Denuncias being issued

ASL Member Founding Member 2012-05-30
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