Live Music Petition Spain

Can anyone remember how many Tommy and the Bars collected on that last petition it was if I remember quiet a few? It was also interesting as the story goes that one of the largest bar operations only collected a grand total of one. Must of thought that it dident affect them.

Just to clarify the situation. In Feb 2013 I attempted to get a general entertainment Licence which covered all aspects of entertainment. We managed to get 1,246 names. We were told by the Valencian delegate that we cannot change the law, but he was willing to let us try and appease everyone by setting out the guidelines which we had last year and were fairly successful. While I respect the online petition, it needs to be read very carefully, and any action should be clear and precise. The idea of our guidelines was to have entertainment all the year round, not just the summer months, as the bars rely on the people who live here for the winter months when no tourists are here.
I continue to have ongoing talks with the Town Hall about what is happening on La Marina, as I am only concerned about our urbanisation, and I will continue to liaise with them.

Tend to agree with you Tommy, As residents of La Marina, we surely have to look after our place. But since you started, the rules everywhere seem to be changing, including Local Police making new rules for themselves and I believe one has decided to discount the Police Chief and the Mayor, and report straight to Valencia, If this turns out to be true, why is he still in the local Police and is someone else paying his wages, because I don't see why the hell we should contribute. So really it needs a lot of strength to get things sorted, I have and always will support the Bars and just cannot see why a few people and a European Law that is almost ignored in other Countries, Suddenly becomes so important to Valencia.
I would like a local rule but it seems it will only last as long as certain members of the local police want it to. or the Chief of Police and the Mayor get rid of this ,little upstart who thinks he runs the place.

To quote from Jaxs page.(The Petition Organiser)
This is the Weekend to Vote! I seriously cannot push this in the media without having a minimum of 500 signatures on the peticion publica. I do this for free, and will not get a cent out of this as I have no bar, and am not an entertainer. I am willing to fight and spend a VAST amount of time and energy doing this BUT only if people step up to the plate and SIGN! Don't let the doubting thomases win who have said that "groups like this always fail" Time is of the essence. Share sign and email to anyone and everyone you can think of.
THE TOTAL NUMBER OF SIGNATURES IS NOW OVER 600.
Seems like slowly it is starting to happen
*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
If you have an NIE please sign THIS petition
Click on the link then go to the bottom and click on "Firma La Recogida de firmas" On the next page, Enter 1. Your first and last name. 2.Your email address 3. Your NIE or DNI 4. Commentarios - leave blank. Uncheck the boxes at the bottom unless you want junk mail. CLICK Firmar Recogida de Firmas and you should be done!
http://peticionpublica.es/pview.aspx?pi=ES74536

If you or your friends have NO NIE, but want to support this cause please go to this site - https://www.change.org/p/president-of-spain-president-of-european-union-president-comunidad-valencia-make-summer-live-entertainment-music-licenses-available-in-all-venues-from-june-to-september-in-spain#

Chose one or the other please

I have heard about this one policeman, and I believe the Town Hall are also aware of who he is. Everyone should be aware that they can put an official complaint in to the Town Hall, if they believe a police officer is abusing his position. I have a form which I was given by the Town Hall, which is an official complaint form, and if anyone would like a copy, just let me know.
Back to the European Law on noise etc. People should be aware that it is NOT a ban on music or entertainment, it is all about NOISE POLLUTION. Everyone knows how noisy the Spanish are when they are together, and when they party we have to put up with fireworks etc.
I have noticed that nothing has been put on here from any entertainers, like their thoughts etc.
I was an entertainer in the UK for years, and what strikes me here is that everyone wants entertainment, but they do not want to listen !!! Everyone will remember when you went to your local Labour Club, Workingmens Club etc for a night out, you went in to the concert room and when the artiste came on, you kept quiet, or, a committee man would tell you to be quiet, or go into the lounge if you wanted to talk. Over here, there is no seperate concert room, and many people go to the bars to catch up, have a drink etc, which is fair enough. Spare a thought for the entertainer, who has got to keep you entertained for 3 hours. A lot of people want to listen and the music level starts off OK, but as the night goes on people get louder, so the entertainer turns his amps up etc, and by the time he is finished, it is just a noise. OK, some people will say that if he was good, he would demand attention, and of course some would say that as long as he gets paid, what is the problem? Quite often, an entertainer is only as good as his audience.
There you go, a few more things to think about.

So true Tommy. TV. in the good old days the committee, I remember Committee man Colin Crompton telling the audience to quieten down before the next artiste came on, As a Southerner it sounded funny then and would sound even funnier today.
Yesterday I popped down to Cagneys to watch Rickey do his acoustic programme, Unfortunately it wasn't as well attended as it deserved to be, but he put on a good show and those that went appreciated it, but I will lay odds that Rickey wouldn't or couldn't do it as a full time job. If the place had been packed like it was prior to the arrival of the 3000euro fine, Rickey wouldnt of been heard, as you say the talking in the audience would of got louder after a few liquid drinks to loosen the voice boxes, luckily yesterday the audience appreciated what Rickey was trying to do ,I don't think audiences will do that every show it just is not in their nature to be quiet on a night out (or afternoon)

It would be interesting to know if it is mainly British expats/immigrants who are dissatisfied with the rules.

Reindeer,
Why would it be interesting?

Why wouldn't it

Are you commenting as 2nd Casa or Devils Advocate.

Alan, I am just curious. Pubs are a tradition in the UK and Ireland. You do not have the same tradition in any other European country.

My god, Alan will try to make an argument out of literally anything won't he!

Are you commenting as 2nd Casa or Devils Advocate.
Commented Alan in La Marina about 4 hours ago





would it really matter ? what's the answer ?

Got to admit, it is getting a bit boring commenting with the gang of three.

The question was apparently once again delicate. It was just a question if different traditions from home countries may play a role and because of that mainly British and Irish expats/immigrants are dissatisfied with the rules/laws. I didn't mean to step on someone's toes.

Reindeer,
I would like to answer you more fully, now I understand what you are on about.
I think the easiest and quickest way to answer would be a quick run down of British pubs past and present.
Most Brits. on la Marina are to put it politely of senior age, going back to their time Pubs were generally smallish, family run pubs (much like la Marina bars of today) they were at one time strictly controlled over opening hours, which generally were 4 hours at lunchtime and 6 hours at night closing at 11pm. music was from an old Joanna (upright piano) and the singers were the drinkers. pubs were noisy but fun (much like La Marina Bars today. Some years ago the Drinking laws were changed so the pubs could open for practically as long as they could afford. This change meant that most family run pubs closed down as they couldn't afford the extra staff they needed and the big company boys with the silly named pubs opened up and mayhem in some pubs in the U.K. has continued off and on ever since, except it is the younger people of both sexes that are doing the drinking and not the middle aged and older generation.
So on looking at what the Brits want I gather it might be the good olde days , back again( i.e.small family pubs,a bit of entertainment, but perhaps proper singing etc I don't think the opening times are too important. To the people I have spoken to about this around mid night seems to be the preferred time to start quietening down. I don't think many people want a Benidorm type 24 hour day life, but it seems that they do want some sort of life.

Well Alan that was a rather well put together reply and I would say fairly accurate. I have to plead guilty to of been one of those Pub Landlords that made the centre of the evening the old Joanna (upright piano) and the singers were the drinkers. Likewise generations of my family before me had done the same and it worked very well. But out here there does not seem to be any pianos or the worse part there does not seem to be any pianist what so ever? OR ARE THERE? Now Ricky if you did but play the piano?

Thank you Alan for taking my question seriously. And for your answer.

The larger venues in La Marina like the hillside looks like an 1980s working mens club and the sports centre like an 1980s lido / cafe, (still use both) both were very good in there day but the Posh club has dragged La Marina kicking and screaming up to date but is this in detriment to the two other places or any of the local bars time will tell

What the hell as that got to do with Live Entertainment or are we the Devil again(advocate)???

Same as bad spelling "has" is spelt has not "as", playing the devil he he he he

See and try to read this http://www.laverdad.es/alicante/201409/01/sancionados-locales-benidorm-tras-20140901015434-v.html
More places with problems.

This as been posted on facebook from someone who seems to know what they are talking about (copied and pasted )
Apparently, no research has been done at all about how a petition works.
According to the constitution, a petition requires at least 1 (one) signature, and can be entered by an individual or a group of individuals. So where do you get the fact that you need 30000 signatures? If it is a petition, you can enter it NOW. The senate must, according to the constitution, answer within 6 months.
Unless what you are trying to do (and that is what I think, because you are trying to change a law) is to enter a “people’s initiative”. A people’s initiative requires 1/1000 of the nation’s population signatures (which would be for Spain 40700 at the moment). To take it to Europe (which is useless because this is a 100 % Spanish and even more, local, matter) you would need 1/1000 of the nation’s population signatures from at least 7 member states of the European Union. And everybody who signs the form has to be “concerned”. People’s initiatives have to be announced to the Spanish Government and to the European Union before they start, and need to mention an end date for collection of signatures.
I also notice that the petition is addressed to “the president of Spain” and “The President of Europe”, which is, again, wrong. Petitions have to be addressed (for Spain) to the president of the senate, and for Europe to the president of the European Council.
And there is more. When entering a people’s initiative, the application will have to be supported by facts. Figures are against you. Tourism has increased, House sales are increasing, Hotel bookings have increased, ….
Wherever you go live entertainment is never more than a 10 minute walk away (unless you live in the mountains). The few bars and artists that have been stopped represent a minor percentage of the total amount of artists and bars over Spain.
Generally, the police turns a blind eye on live music, however they know that bars don’t have a music license, and artists are not registered, and staff is not registered. So what are we complaining about?
The result of what you are asking for may be that controls increase, and that live music really dies, because most of the bars cannot afford music licenses.
Only when there are complaints, the police MUST deal with them, that’s international police deontology.
I was having a laugh when Jackie announced that the mayor of San Fulgencio was supporting the cause. Why doesn’t he do something about it then?
Allowing live music is a 100 % local matter (I can take you to one of the local mayors to confirm you this statement). If you want to achieve something, talk to the local mayors, they have the power to give you what you are asking for.

Favorite saying on here just being the Devils Advocate but I do not think this will go anywhere hope I am wrong as I have signed the petition.

Favorite saying on here just being the Devils Advocate but I do not think this will go anywhere hope I am wrong as I have signed the petition.
Commented david in La Marina about 3 hours ago



So we have another playing "Devils advocate" as well as me !!!

David knows what he is talking about, how come the people organizing the petition dont do their homework. When I talk to Spanish about this they say the people that think they can change a law with a few thousand signatures are more stupid than a monkey. The lady that started the petition claims to have no ulterior motive but she forgets to mention that she works for a company that books singers. The solution is simple get all the required licences and soundproof your premises to the correct standard and you will never see a policeman again. Why do some Brits think they can change a country where they are immigrants, as I am sure that most moan about how the immigrants have changed the UK. I get ashamed by the arrogance of some ex pats that think it is below them to apply and wait for licences to be issued. I await the flack but no insults just try and disprove my statement.

john,
I think you have got a bit confused,
It seems to me that david did not write the piece, I think he copied and pasted it from facebook. In fact david went so far as to say that he had signed the petition. If he was the author of the piece from facebook he would of seemed a bit odd. I don't know just how much of this you have read on facebook, but the person running the campaign has stated several times who she is what she does as a job, she def aint hiding the fact. If the Spanish are telling you, You cant change the law, with a few thousand names on a petition, then why are you believing the guy who actually wrote this piece, because he seems to say you can change it with just one signature. If the Spanish are saying that you have to be silly as monkees if you think you can change the law by signing bits of paper, then don't forget monkees are said to be very intelligent, and also why is this petition in Spanish as well as English, if the Spanish say you cant change the law with petitions.
Personally what is happening is far above my comphrension, I do not have a full understanding of what is happening or why, but I just fancied being yet another Devils Advocate, cant see why I cant join that club

Personally what is happening is far above my comphrension, I do not have a full understanding of what is happening or why, but I just fancied being yet another Devils Advocate, cant see why I cant join that club
Commented Alan in La Marina about an hour ago







Another "Devils advocate" and I am the founder member, oh and comprehension is spelt like this, just saying hehehehe

2nd Casa
Must say I am disappointed in my leader, I put in a deliberate spelling mistake,
which was spotted by my leader. But I gather it was favouritism to david in his comment prior when he used the word 'as' when as we all know, the correct spelling was in fact' has', I must insist that in future ,if you are to remain leader of the Advocates, you must not show favour.
to some and not others. Otherwise we will look like bars and police, where some bars are favoured by
the police and others are got at. WE NEED A FAIRNESS TO ALL POLICY

Nobody has anything to worry about, this is only a few moaners limited to La Marina, right? Oh hang on, what do you mean there are thousands of people across Spain that don't want to listen to crap music from Bars from the privacy of there own homes? What do you mean the authorities agree with them?
David, you are wrong. National law always trumps that of tin-pot, made up, local laws. The bottom line is if Bars in La Marina had toed the line when they had the opportunity we all could of been happy. The law has caught up with La Marina and I couldn't be happier.

Alan this is the quote from the organisers facebook page.
To quote from Jaxs page.(The Petition Organiser)
This is the Weekend to Vote! I seriously cannot push this in the media without having a minimum of 500 signatures on the peticion publica. I do this for free, and will not get a cent out of this as I have no bar, and am not an entertainer. I am willing to fight and spend a VAST amount of time and energy doing this BUT only if people step up to the plate and SIGN! Don't let the doubting thomases win who have said that "groups like this always fail" Time is of the essence. Share sign and email to anyone and everyone you can think of.
To be truthful she should say. I am working for a company that supplies artists to bars and I am being paid to do this to protect my employer. The reason that the petition is in Spanish is because it would not be accepted in parliament unless it was in Spanish and not because they expect many Spanish to sign. I do not believe that this is actually a petition as it would not need many people signing I believe it is a peoples initiative which requires 1/1000 of the population of Spain but is floundering at a couple of thousand mainly southern Costa Blanca ex pats.

John,
I really don't want to get drawn into this debate, although I do read all I can about it, so what you have copied from facebook I was already aware of, My comment was to let you know that anybody who had read the facebook page on music in the costas would of read several times from the people running the page exactly who is doing what and what their ties are, I do not know of anyone involved in this page who are trying to keep secrets, the other comment I made was that you claiming david was right,i just mentioned that david only said that he had signed the petition and he hoped he hadn't done the wrong thing. The rest of his comment was a copy of what someone had written, as an afterthought this person made loads of claims to rules, but verified none of them.
As I had said,I always have been a supporter of bars and live music within certain stipulations, i.e. Noise, after a certain time ,noise of people leaving these bars and car noise made after leaving.. As for complainers, I think that those who complain for no other reason than they can if they want should also be fined if it appears they are wasting police time. I have been in bars when this has happened and the person who has nothing to lose is the person who made the complaint out of sheer boredom, or malice.
As things are at this time no one is giving any actual proof of what they say. so where possible it is my intension to make light to things until someone can prove what they say is true and cannot be misconstrued.

Alan, the time is approaching that even you will have to admit that it this is not a few bored people complaining for the sake of it; read the news, this is happening in every town in every province. There are many people, just like me, sick of arrogant bar owners thinking they can do what ever they want. If you are serious about keeping live music in bars then you should be championing noise limiters in every bar with a music licence. Read back through my posts from 5 years ago; I predicted the current situation. I further predict that all bars with a music licences will be required to have a limiter and bars with no licence will be required to...ah..be quiet. I'll buy you a beer if I'm wrong. After that I'm going to run for mayor and get rid of those bloody ridiculous fiestas. Who's with me?

johnmckernanjnr you wrote Why do some Brits think they can change a country where they are immigrants, as I am sure that most moan about how the immigrants have changed the UK.
This is exactly the problem. So true.

flagkilo,
Still awaiting to see anything other than a wimpering few complainers, fighting to hold the tide back. Don't know what if anything you were saying five years ago, but you havn't had much backing. Why not start a page on facebook in opposition to the one appearing at the moment, and see first hand who is with you and who is against.
As for me changing my tune, surely even the compensation you complainers will possibly receive , Just is it worth the hassle.
mind you if you were to put up for Independent in the Council elections (sorry the Mayors jobs is not on the agenda for you) I would seriously look at what you were to offer, you must have some good points, unfortunately the one you have now will not get you voted in. If you think I am wrong go for the job and prove me wrong

Hi Alan, sorry to pick up the mistakes again but why not write 'HAVE' instead of 'OF'.

If he was the author of the piece from facebook he would 'of 'seemed a bit odd.
If he was the author of the piece from facebook he would have seemed a bit odd.

Just trying to balance the good deeds.
Pete

Thanks for that Peter, It does look more sensible your way, will try to do better next time, but pushing 70 now so learning takes a bit more work.

Get a life.

70? Surely, there is no way your IQ is anywhere near that Alan.

Flagkilo
I would agree with your comment, but then we would both be wrong.

Dont worry Alan, I'm only three years behind you.
It's been very quiet on here for a while - time to wake people up I think!